Ep #10 – Gitanjali Ghate & Jayadev Ambat on the Evolution of Consumer Insights

Welcome to the tenth episode of ‘Heureka – The Insights podcast’ by thelightbulb.ai. In this episode, we are hosting Gitanjali Ghate, Co-founder & Managing Director and Jayadev Ambat, Partner at The Third Eye Integrated Services, a leading Qualitative Research Agency established almost three decades ago.  

Tune in as they share their expertise and insights on the evolving landscape of market research & consumer insights and their journey in this dynamic industry! 

Guest: Gitanjali Ghate

Gitanjali Ghate is an accomplished professional specializing in Qualitative Market Research & Consumer Insights, with a wealth of experience across various roles and organizations. Currently the Co-founder and Managing Director at The Third Eye Integrated Services, Gitanjali has been instrumental in driving the company’s growth and success in Mumbai, Maharashtra, India. 

Guest: Jayadev Ambat

Currently a Partner at The Third Eye Integrated Services, Jayadev plays a crucial role in shaping strategic initiatives and driving innovation at The Third Eye. 

Prior to this role, Jayadev held several key positions at notable firms. He was a Senior Process Manager at eClerx, Manager at Mu Sigma, and Associate Consultant at Fractal Analytics. Additionally, he worked as an intern at Viacom and started his career as an Officer Trainee at Hindustan Petroleum Corporation Limited. 

Host: Ritu Soni Srivastava

Heureka – The Insights Podcast is a series of podcast episodes hosted by Ritu Soni Srivastava, who is a seasoned entrepreneur, focused on her current startup thelightbulb.ai, a full-stack emotion ai platform for digital interactions that has scanned more than 8 million faces for emotion analysis. She has held pivotal profiles across deep-tech, health-tech, telecom and media companies over the last 20 years. Her cross-industries experience gives her a unique edge in understanding consumer trends and insights across verticals.

In the podcast, Shibarjun shares some interesting experiences, challenges and solutions of working from agency as well as brand side.

Engagement and Sentiment Analysis of Podcast

Note: Engagement and sentiment analysis are generated using thelightbulb.ai’s  Insights Pro

Voice Transcripts of Podcast

Note: Transcription of the podcast is generated using thelightbulb.ai’s Insights Pro

Heureka by thelightbulb.ai, The Insights podcast.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – Awesome. And welcome to the amazing edition of the Insights podcast, Hureka, that I personally have been waiting for for a very long time. We have been wrangling ways and means of trying to get this fantastic team onto our podcast, and today, we have managed to achieve it. I have with me Gitanjali and Jayadevan from The Third Eye.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – They are not just clients and customers for us, but they are a inspiring team that has over, JD in his case, a decade, and Gitanjali in her case, over 30 years of experience in the space of research and insights, which is truly a lifetime of experience gathered. And today, we are going to be able to share that with you. I don’t want to steal anyone’s thunder, so I’m going to start off by asking Gitanjali to give us a quick introduction of herself and tell us a little bit about her career and how she spent 30 years building an organization that’s synonymous with qualitative research in India today. Gitanjali, welcome to the show and over to you.

Gitanjali Ghate  – Thank you, Ritu, for having us, and I can’t tell you how delighted we are to be here. So a little bit about my career. So, you know, when I say 30 years, I feel, like, completely fossilized because it’s a long time. But I think, Jasmeet and I set it up together 30 years ago when qualitative research was, what would I say, in its infancy? People didn’t really understand it, and they would say including our families, like, they couldn’t quite understand.

Gitanjali Ghate – But I think what we did want to do from, innovation point of view, if I can use that word now, and it seems dated now, but I think it was innovative then, was to bring a very strong psychological bent and emotion and psychological bent into research. Research was a lot about behavior, but I don’t think there was enough because a lot of research was quantitative. So let me also put that out there. It was not like there were people didn’t understand the difference between qualitative and quantitative research, and I think that there was a focus on numbers and observed behavior rather than inferred behavior. And I think what we wanted to do was bring inferences and insights, which made us look more deeply into why people did what they did.

Gitanjali Ghate- I think initially, we struggled a bit, but I think once it caught on, I think many clients could not get enough of it because it I mean, It’s a great way to understand the wise to the words. Right? So that’s really what we did, and we’ve been doing that for the last 30 years. And we’re extremely lucky that we have a very talented team. So if you ask me what my role today in Thera is and what I do, it’s really to mentor these super bright guys.

Gitanjali Ghate– One of them is JD. And to really take and to learn from them rather than to actually teach them what the next thing is. So that’s really where we are at.

Jayadev Ambat- And I why I don’t think that point. Exactly. I was just about to say that I think Geeta is not doing credit to herself. And she’s being very self-replacing and both Geeta and Julie and just need our institutions within the space. So, I think it’s very modest in the way she spoke about it, but, there’s a lot of equity that rides on both of them, which they have kind of like, it has spilled over to Third Eye as a entity get large.

Jayadev Ambat– And, I think it’s currently, it continues to be one of the biggest purely qualitative research providers, but we have moved interestingly from pure play into new, spaces, and that’s something which I think we’ll we’ll cover through this through this conversation as well. But, yeah, I just wanted to point out that she would be extremely humble to a point.

Gitanjali Ghate- Thank you, Thank you.

Ritu Soni Srivastava– Not at all. I think she is super humble for the kind of years of experience she has and the reputation she has in the industry. And you, JD, of course, are no slouch yourself. With over a decade of WorkX, I think you’re one of the most innovative and forward thinking researchers it has been our pleasure to associate with. So tell me a little bit about yourself.

Ritu Soni Srivastava- I saw in your experience that you did an internship all the way back with Viacom and prior to that That’s right.

Jayadev Ambat- That’s right.

Ritu Soni Srivastava– You were with HPCL. It’s a

Jayadev Ambat– it’s a very strange resume, but I think strangeness also adds some kind of, like, I don’t know, like, some kind of a quasi quality, to how we approach problem solving, if I may. So I am by pedigree, engineering graduate and MBA as cliche as it sounds. So I’m one of those cliches, but, so that took me to a point. Hindustan Petroleum I used to work in, then I did my MBA from MICA. I had a pretty big stint in big data, for roughly 4 to 5 years, and that also brings a bit of numbers appreciation and the flavor of, let’s say, lateral approaches in my style of working.

Jayadev Ambat– Joined Third Eye in 2013, have grown and been mentored by all these giants within the organization, currently part of the Third Eye leadership. And I handle the digitization, innovation, and partnerships agenda for that eye. So tech and tech plus, so to speak. That’s a key part of my job description. So, yeah, that’s my short and sweet intro for the 10 years worth.

Ritu Soni Srivastava– No. No. I think I think there is so much more that we will get to unpack. Yes, Gitanjali. You were about to say something.

Gitanjali Ghate– So I was just gonna say he’s also being very humble because JD is really the star. And I think to build on how the arc has moved today, when I said that there was quantitative and qualitative, there were 2 different disciplines. There’s a fusion of those today, and I think it’s become research. So I think you cannot bucket anymore. I think everything is about behavior.

Gitanjali Ghate– Everything is about, at some level, deep diving. It’s about scale. It’s about depth, width. So everything is now at some level fusing to become something new. It’s morphing.

Gitanjali Ghate– It’s fusing. And I think JD is really leading that initiative for Third Eye. So like he said, his eclectic mix and his amazing ability to problem solve and future forecast is actually what is really gaining from. So I just want to build it to say that he’s also being humble. His background has he’s he’s somebody who thinks very differently and disruptively, and I think that has really helped us and I think it’s what organizations need.

Gitanjali Ghate- So, JD, to you too.

Jayadev Ambat– Thank you, Deepika.

Ritu Soni Srivastava– Awesome. This is a mutual admiration society. And on that note, I’m going to actually before we get into the heavy lifting, just want to talk a little bit about what your day looks like. Now I can see, of course, Gitanjali, that you’re in your beautiful go on, Vila, and I am dying as I had mentioned of envy out here. And because I know JD and, you know, we are stuck in the cities, but you seem to have it all together.

Ritu Soni Srivastava- Tell me what your day looks like.

Gitanjali Ghate- Okay. So I like all researchers while I have this beautiful villa and I guess work out of a great work environment. I have green trees. I have birds chirping. It’s lovely.

Gitanjali Ghate– But like all researchers and every researcher will tell you, we have very long days, very long and very busy days. And there are days that are sometimes very fulfilling. And I think at 2 or 3 levels, I think one is a large part of your day is spent with the people you work with. So I think there are 2 things. It’s who you work with and what you do.

Gitanjali Ghate– I love what I do because it is I’m a psychologist by training. It’s about understanding people, so it gives me a big high to be able to see different people, see how they think, how they behave, what they don’t say, not just what they say. So for me, the high comes from all of that, and I’m able to apply it well. But I think a lot of joy for me comes from the people I work with, and we all have frustrations like we do. But I think the fulfilling part comes from the fact that we work like a community, and I think in many ways, we don’t, we’re very different from every other organization and part of the charm of working in Third Eye is that.

Gitanjali Ghate– So I think while we wear a researcher hat, I think we also wear a Third Eye hat, which is much more community. It’s excellence. We all push ourselves. So I think that makes the end of the day fulfilling most days frustrating some days.

Ritu Soni Srivastava– What about you, JD? Is is your I know you don’t have such a gorgeous work environment. We’re all stuck in the city, with little trips back to Kerala to rejuvenate the soul. But what does your typical work day look like? Do you do, like, the 9 to 5, or is it, like, 7 to 9?

Jayadev Ambat– I think I think I think 9 to 5 as a concept has kind of, like, died in the last few years, courtesy COVID times. One of the positive outcomes of COVID, I would say. Anyway, service industry at large is 247. I mean, that’s, again, yet another cliche. But having said that, I think, what COVID and the post COVID working scenario has given us a lot of, different ways of working and flexibility.

Jayadev Ambat– And while I am missing out on the go and villa side of things, I think what I’m gaining and what Geeta is losing as the wonderful Mumbai folks. So I come get to sit into office everyday. I stay, like, right around the corner, spend time with them, work through the day, and party through the night or something. Like, one of those ideal case scenarios at least for my my lifestyle. Yeah.

Ritu Soni Srivastava– I heard that the party through the night went very silent because he comes on the call, but we just let’s skip over that bit.

Jayadev Ambat– Yes. Yes. I think we should separately connect on that.

Ritu Soni Srivastava– No. It makes sense. Now let’s let’s jump into a little bit of the heavy lifting. I’ve been wanting to ask Geeta this because unlike a lot of folks whom we have, who are senior folks, I think Geeta has really seen the arc of the insights industry move in India. So thirty years is an amazing length of time to be in a market and, in a business.

Ritu Soni Srivastava– Gita, how have you seen industry norms or the consumer insights industry itself change? I know you spoke about the fusion of research. I know you spoke about how people understand qual better now. But what have been some of the radical changes that even you could not have predicted?

Gitanjali Ghate– Okay. So I think there are 2 or 3 things that I think have changed. I think the pace at which technology has come so one is there’s a in there’s this whole conversation around agility. Everyone wants it yesterday. Now in the old days when you wanted it yesterday, you still have to work very hard.

Gitanjali Ghate–  You work very long hours. You won the midnight oil to deliver yesterday. But I think technology and the infusion of technology enabled agility. It’s enabled efficiency, and I can see that. And I I’m hoping that technology will reach a state where it does not erode in any way into excellence.

Gitanjali Ghate– And I think AI will do that because I think you need to train it a little more. But I think what it’s managed to do is it that it’s managed to at some level To me, there are 2 big disruptions that have happened with technology coming in. 1 is the collection of data, and 1 is the collection of data. And I think when you have very large sample sets, that’s been happening, but even in qualitative work, to be able to actually put data together. So I think there’s the collection and the coalition which has happened very nicely.

Gitanjali Ghate– And I think to me, it the the other big shift that’s happened is the influx of motivation, emotion. It’s what you guys do. I think it was very difficult before technology before tech came in to really understand system 1 because I mean, you could do it and we had techniques to do it, but I think what emotional AI has actually allowed us to do is to understand emotion that is felt, but not necessarily either articulated or even consciously, what should I say, manifested. But I’m feeling it. But even I don’t know it.

Gitanjali Ghate– I think that’s been a very big shift. And I think while nothing works in isolation, that in conjunction with some degree of other system and tools and then a deep dive into understanding the whys really allows us to get a very rich understanding. So if anything to me, technology has sharpened inciting without really taking away from the depth of it is the way I think. And I’m hoping that we are able to see even more of that, more without taking the depth. That’s really too that’s a big disruption that happened.

Ritu Soni Srivastava– That’s beautifully put, Gitanjali, because I you know, we meet a lot of research folks in our day to day work, and we’ve seen that a lot of the senior folks sometimes look at technology as not really an enhancer in terms of agility or, you know, sharpening the insight, but as something that takes away from the purity of research. And it’s so refreshing to see such a forward thinking viewpoint where you’re able to look at the fact that that depth is still maintained, but that you’re able to speed up the process, cut out the unnecessary distraction, really get to the insight faster. JD, would you agree? What have what have you seen in your decade here on how the industry has transformed? I know you’ve come in on a more recent juncture, increased in the last decade.

Ritu Soni Srivastava– So what do you think?

Jayadev Ambat–  And that is kind of the nature of the leads, I guess. Like, if you look at the how technology then, like, what we term as research friendly technologies, And if you take just the technology vector in the last 5 years versus last 3 years or the last 2 years with AI, booming, I think it’s like a complete everyone is on a constant learning curve, so norms are keep keeping on getting transformed and recalibrated every other year. So that’s one big industry wide challenge, which I’m sure all agencies and all researchers are together, maneuvering through. But there are also 2 or 3 very parallel threads that I observed in recent years, at least in my even if I take my 10 year experience and if I, like, take the early half of it and the latter half of it. The latter half has been very action packed both from even the client’s expectations and how they have started shifting.

Jayadev Ambat– So the ask and expectations are getting much and much more strategic in recent times. And connected to that, there is a sense that solution for my business problems or solution for my larger research task. That is the, big need for the client and what tools you imply, whether you approach it from qualitative, from quantitative, which technological tool, specifically that you employ. All of that is secondary. As soon as my larger business question is answered, who you partner with, what tools you use, it’s all kind of a material for the client now.

Jayadev Ambat And that attitude is not for every guy client. At least a big cluster of them are willing to therefore go beyond tactical and immediate and willing to engage on larger strategic business problems. That is one transformation I have seen in recent times. Another one, I think, Gira touched upon it, which was the agility and efficiency point. But there are also conversations that clients are now having on cost effectiveness.

Jayadev Ambat Right? There are budgetary constraints which are very, primary for many of their, briefs, and there is a need for designs that are much more like, if I were to use the phrase bang for the buck. Right? So there is a kind of a cost I ROI sensitivity, like a return on investment sensitivity, which is coming in even for the clients. And wherever the brief demands it, the client is also be open to scale consideration so that the CPI or the cost per interaction cost per interview cost per unit also comes down so that ROI sensitivities has started creeping into our designs.

Jayadev Ambat Right? That’s another shift. A 3rd shift, if I were to say, is I think because of the 10 degrees who have come in and many of the clients are also digital startups, they have brought in with them a very beta mindset of working. Right? So there is a requirement to constantly engage with these clients end to end, keep on reporting quick and iterative learnings without waiting for any big reveal at the end.

Jayadev Ambat And there is a general openness to cobuild the analysis versus arriving at perfection. Right? So build versus perfect. That that shift is also something which I have noticed in the recent past.

Ritu Soni Srivastava Very nice. I there was a conversation I had yesterday with a group of, investors slash researchers from the Southeast Asia market. And one of them used this term, outcome as a service. He said that I feel that the industry today is no longer research as a service or technology as a service or SaaS as a service.

Ritu Soni Srivastava– It’s now outcome as a service. Here is my problem. Here is the outcome I’m expecting. And what do you have to do to get to it? And I can help you get to it, is really you know, which is a very collaborative yet target oriented kind of thinking.

Jayadev Ambat– So I think And just to add to it, Ritu, just, we also have this internal term difference between output and outcome. So there is a research output, but there is a larger outcome. So even in our reporting and, again, connecting to your larger point, I’m sure this is true for other agencies as well. It’s not enough to just answer the problems, but very so like Geeta said, like, the initial years, the whole conversation was on finding the vice to the warts. But now the the the larger point is to find out how to sew whats to those to those buys.

Jayadev Ambat– Right? So implication larger outcomes are valued even more than just a research output.

Ritu Soni Srivastava– Lovely. Lovely. I know we’ve already covered a lot of it, but, Geeta, what would be one of the most prevalent industry trends that you are seeing happening around you? I know you’ve already spoken a great deal about tech agility, and now we’ve spoken about outcomes. But what is an industry trend, that you are observing?

Ritu Soni Srivastava– Maybe if you can illustrate with an example of a project or a or a case study or a client that you’ve seen recently. We’d love to hear more about that.

Gitanjali Ghate– So I think 2 things. I think to what JD said and very eloquently, outcomes. I think there are 2 things that are happening, and I think it’s becoming a big trend. I think research is no longer siloed. I think it’s a big shift for me personally because we were so traditionally, you were either quantitative hat or a qualitative hat.

Gitanjali Ghate– And there was this you actually identified as, oh, I’m a quant person or a call person. So that was your some level your identity. Okay? Or there, you would have things. And, again, it’s a fossil conversation, but we are the qual types, which basically meant you would come and give us these.

Gitanjali Ghate– Or clients would say, don’t give me call type of like, give me a quant sense to it. So there were all of these this is a kind of silification. I think there are clients today who still continue to think like that, but I think there’s definitely a forward focus where, like JD is saying, I want outcome. I think there is a greater degree of performance in research, if you know what I mean. In performance marketing, you look at I think there is a sense of what is the outcome, how will I look at it, what will it translate to.

Gitanjali Ghate– And like JD was saying, I don’t care what I use. So I’ll give you an example, and we view some of what you have said as well. We used you on a project too. So I think the client was trying to look at some communication. It it it was an established piece, that was out there.

Gitanjali Ghate– I think they were trying to understand 2, 3 things. They were trying to understand the strategic orientation of where it was a very large brand. It was a jewelry brand, and they needed to clearly understand what the next 5 year not just communication strategy, but the strategy for the brand was the communication was 1 input into it. The outcome was almost like a strategic way forward to solve, like, a business problem. And the business problem was there was a difference between the sort south and the north and, you know, classic jewelry issues that you have in terms of the north market not pushing as much as the south market, etcetera.

Gitanjali Ghate– But they knew that traditional rules didn’t apply. So what they recognized was even research could not be done traditionally. You don’t do 6 groups and find out why. So we use technology. We use light bulb to understand some degree of communication.

Gitanjali Ghate– We used a very large platform where we did to me, that’s the other big shift. Consumers are today not just consumers. They’re also partners. So you are you have platforms where they partner with you. There is a lot of self reporting that happens rather than consumer rather than the researcher asking.

Gitanjali Ghate– So in some sense, we were able to use light bulb and AI. We were able to use the platform, and we were able to do some degree of traditional research. We could get scale, we could get depth, and we could actually very clearly give them a very holistic strategy. To me, that’s the other big difference. Otherwise, you would have people going and saying, okay.

Gitanjali Ghate– Give me this in call, then give me this in quant and then the client put together the strategy. Today, as a I think you are now today a strategic partner, not a research partner. And if researchers are able to actually move from being just research partners to being strategic partners, that’s where the biggest gain will happen for them as well. Though we are getting then into the into the, what should I can say, consulting space, but I think what makes us unique is our roots for strategy are still deeply in research. So I think that’s the point of difference, but I think our focus shifts from just output like JD said to outcomes.

Gitanjali Ghate– So to me, that’s the best one. And, of course, technology enables it. Scale will enable it. There’ll be many different enablers to it, but I think the shift is in perspective.

Ritu Soni Srivastava– That’s really interesting, and it’s also very challenging, I think, from a business perspective. And I know JD leads a lot of the trust of business development. So, JD, this one’s to you. Now that clients are coming from an outcome focused perspective and an ROI perspective, From a business perspective, what is one of the key problems that you look to solve on a day to day basis? What is the thing that keeps you awake nights?

Ritu Soni Srivastava– What do you struggle with?

Jayadev Ambat– So it’s in a way, it’s kind of like the organization and the organization composition. So while we’re having more and more recruits with different skills and strengths and coming from different discipline backgrounds, at the heart of it, all of us are qualitative research. So it used to be, like, classically. But like I said, in the last few years, given these shifts, it’s about how do you socialize these shifts well into the organization. So that is a major challenge and a very interesting challenge that I keep working on day on day from an internal point of view.

Jayadev Ambat– And from a client facing point of view, I think it’s connected to what Geeta was saying. I think, many of the recent briefs, it almost seemed like it’s come a full circle. Geeta opened her narrative about her own past saying that 30 years back, everyone was recording behavior, and you want to understand the insight. But I think behavioral recording has come back into, force in many of the client base. So it’s they are not just happy with anecdotal recording alone.

Jayadev Ambat– They want very clear behavioral observations. They want to collect a lot of evidences and artifacts from the consumer behaviors, and it can even go beyond consumer behaviors into larger sociocultural shifts. Right? So they wanted us to think data and beyond data, but like I said, it’s not just the stated data, but also the observed data. Right?

Jayadev Ambat– So how do you bring in that behavioral appreciation into everyday research work? Right? So that’s an interesting challenge that we have been or rather have been handling over the last 1 or 2 years. And the other point is, again, something which Geeta touched upon is the scaled approaches, right, which we feel we have solved amply in recent times. In fact, we haven’t even coined an interesting term.

Jayadev Ambat– So what we we we call it because very similar to big data. Right? So earlier qualitative samples used to be very small, 20 or 30 minutes. Some of the recent studies are unheard of in in the call discipline just from the sample sizes that we have handled, like, almost 600 to 1000 people. Right?

Jayadev Ambat– So what part is call and where does that line start blurring with. Right? That is, like, a fine line that I’m finding very interesting to navigate. Right? So bringing in those quantification principles and visualizations and all the all the bells and whistles that those kind of large scale samples require and demand.

Jayadev Ambat– How do you bring that and socialize it within the organization challenges.

Ritu Soni Srivastava– It sounds, it sounds like a formidable problem, honestly. It could

Jayadev Ambat- be fun problems. It’s formidable, but fun. Yeah.

Ritu Soni Srivastava– Only you could make it fun, Genu. He just scares the bejesus out of but tell me one thing, Geeta, we’re coming back to you. You started as a psychologist. I know that was where your training was. You started what was then a qual agency.

Ritu Soni Srivastava– Then now you’ve moved on. You’re incorporating technology. You’ve bought an emotion AI. You’re using large platforms. All of these radical changes, where do you see Curdai 5 years from now?

Ritu Soni Srivastava – What do you see yourself representing in the industry? What change do you see you your team, your organization making in the site space? What would you like to be remembered for?

Gitanjali Ghate – My legacy? I think for 2 things. I think we would like to definitely be remembered. To me, actually, three things. I think we want to continue to stay insightful.

Gitanjali Ghate – And to JD’s point, the insight needs to inform outcome, and I think we we need to be seen like that. So to me, while I don’t want to ever give up my research hat, I definitely want to be remembered for making a difference, for contributing. And, you know, the 2 over the years, it’s to me, that will always be really important. People will remember you. It’s about making a difference to somebody’s business.

Gitanjali Ghate  – I think that and to be able to do it in a way that has a more enduring impact. So I’m saying and we’ve done it historically for many brands. We did it differently. For instance, we’ve done it for dairy milk. It’s now become a case that gets talked about so often.

Gitanjali Ghate  – We moved the needle from it being only for children to it actually being today the modern meter. We’ve done we’ve helped launch, and now to today, everyone owns diamonds and, you know, gold is struggling to reposition itself to be diamond like. So we’ve done it in many different ways then in a particular way. So I think, honestly, we would like that legacy of third eye to continue, to make a difference to brands, to make a difference to business in a enduring manner in which you are remembered. And the guys who leave the business, even they remember that you made a difference.

Gitanjali Ghate– So I think that I’m saying all legacies are finally about contributing to make a difference. I think the question is in how we make the difference and what we use to make the difference. I think we’d like to today at least be people who have said, okay. There’s a fusion. It’s like what JD was saying.

Gitanjali Ghate  – It’s the coming together of research rather than the silification of it. I think to me, that’s an important part. It’s also partnering. I think as an industry, we do not partner enough. So I think we want to everyone is, like, protective of their turf, but I don’t know if we partner enough, and I am fairly confident I can say this.

Gitanjali Ghate– I don’t know what you will get from other researchers. But, again, I’m talking traditionally, maybe the younger lot like JD and all are much more open to it. I think there was some degree of, you know again, like I said, siloing, this is my boundary, this is your boundary. I think the breaking down of those boundaries I think that to me is a very critical part. I think the fusion where everyone is outcome focused and everyone is a partner to me, why should technology not partner us?

Gitanjali Ghate– I mean, the world is moving on technology. Why should Ritu and 3rdai not be partners? To me, I don’t understand it. I think what you do is enrich what we understand, and to me, that’s really what we want to be remembered for. And, of course, the fact that in that partnering, you build a community that constantly at some level builds and creates even better because what communities can create, individual can never do.

Gitanjali Ghate– At least I’m a firm believer in it. You know? There is all of this power of 1, but the power of many I mean, revolutions happen only when the collective comes together. Right? One individual can only spark a revolution, cannot make it happen.

Gitanjali Ghate– So to me, if change has to happen as an industry, we need to partner much more. And we need to partner with people we would not have ordinarily even thought about. Like, if, say, to me, yes, there’s you know, I mean, you guys do so much with emotion. To me, 10 years ago, somebody had said emotionally, I have to said no. So to me, three thing, openness, curiosity, you know, the spirit of partnership.

Gitanjali Ghate– This is what we want to be remembered for. And, of course, like I said, to make a difference sounds very cliche because everyone wants to be remembered for making a difference. But I think we’ve always made a difference. We’d like to continue to make a difference. Like I said, the how will how will change, but I think the impact should be the same.

Ritu Soni Srivastava– I think if your heart is in the right place, you know, there’s nowhere to go but up, and I think Third Eye is a is a perfect depiction of that. Also, we I I would love to continue this, but we’re really running out of time. This has been a fascinating conversation. To end, I have a couple of questions. JD, you experimented with a lot of different spaces and now made your home in the space of research.

Ritu Soni Srivastava– What are 3 tips or 2 tips or even one tip that you would like to give someone who has always been interested in consumer behavior insights and wants to make a career there. So any guiding light there that you could provide.

Jayadev Ambat– I think Geeta should also weigh on this, but I would feel being curiosity and openness, that’s a very key trait for any researcher, even more so in recent times. So, bring that side of you, into into this industry. Also, partnership, like we said, like that willing to willing to scout around, trying to understand tech, not be intimidated by it. We embrace it. Right?

Jayadev Ambat– And also partner with people, is the larger is the larger point, which I want to land on. Nita, any tips that you have?

Gitanjali Ghate –              No. I think that, and I think, exactly what JD said. I think the fact that you actually need to be curious if you want to be a researcher. You need to be open, and you definitely need to think community. You need to think partnerships, I think.

Gitanjali Ghate  – And I think younger people in any case are agile and more efficient. I think the one word that I think is critical when you’re trying to understand and engage with consumers is empathy. And I remember asking somebody who’s into tech saying, what happens to empathy? And the person turned around and told me, don’t you realize that actually tech is very well poised to build empathy? So empathy doesn’t only have to be it’s actually it it’s not that tech doesn’t go with empathy.

Gitanjali Ghate – actually use tech to be even more empathetic. You can So I think in a business like research, I think empathy is really, really critical. So I think while tech brings efficiency, and the brave will rule the world. I think the other c I would like to add here other than, you know, curiosity and community is courage. And I think JD displays it very well in Third Eye because I have to say this, sometimes Jasmeet and I are tentative about even technology, but I think you need to push the boundaries and need to have the courage to say it doesn’t matter.

Gitanjali Ghate– Let’s explore it. So I think an explorer mindset today is what really people in in this business need. I think, you know, exploring, pioneering that.

Ritu Soni Srivastava– Awesome. I that actually almost answers the question I had for you, which is by all rights, you are a personification of a research leader in the in the space of insights. What do you feel that other leaders need to exemplify or, you know, basically put as a top down approach? Because we all know organizational cultures stem top down. Right?

Ritu Soni Srivastava– And you’re at the helm of an organization that’s progressive, innovative, that has stood the test of time and is making a difference. What do you feel more leaders need to do for their organizations, for the teams, for the industry that can really help revolutionize it?

Gitanjali Ghate– Okay. I’m gonna say something that I don’t know how well it’ll go down with people, but I think you have to change the top down approach to bottom up. I think we have a lot to learn from younger people, and I say this all the time. I think when you’re older, you bring wisdom. So I think there are certain things that wisdom brings with it, and maybe there are certain boundaries wisdom creates.

Gitanjali Ghate– But I think there is some there’s also a resistance that older people have. I know it all. I’ve been in it for 30 years. Let me tell you how it’s done. I think that has completely disrupted today.

Gitanjali Ghate– I think young people have shown us that, and I think the best thing you can do at the helm of things is really to learn, to learn from from the next level. Like, to me, every day working with JD and the team teaches me something new. So I think you have to have both the humility and the curiosity as a leader to learn. You have to understand there is a bottom up. So top down will always exist because hierarchy will always exist.

Gitanjali Ghate  – You will have do’s and don’ts. You will have some boundaries and guardrails for the health of the business, and that should always exist. But I think you have to think bottom up today. The next big change will come when young people say, hey. Give me a chance.

Gitanjali Ghate  – Give me a platform, and I would urge leaders to give young people a platform. Let them teach you something. Let them be disruptive. Let them change the business. That’s where the winning will come from.

Gitanjali Ghate  – You know? And to me, I mean, I don’t know. Like I said, you have to have the courage to hand over and say and to surrender and say, I don’t know everything. To me, that’s what I mean. So I think brave will do with the world applies to older people as well.

Gitanjali Ghate  – Every day is a learning experience for me with all these young guys. I mean, I’m just amazed at what they can teach you. So to me, yes, bottom up rather than just top down. Or maybe an osmotic relationship, which is as much bottom up as it is top down, if that’s even possible.

Ritu Soni Srivastava– I see now, JB, why you stuck around that Third Eye ad while using to move. I I totally get it. I would I would jump in if I could. No. But it’s not

Jayadev Ambat– exactly what I’m saying. Anecdote. No. I’m just saying it’s a curious anecdote. Both are employee, retention rate and the client retention rate are, like, super high.

Jayadev Ambat – Like, clients are delighted to stay and employees are delighted to

Ritu Soni Srivastava– Why am I not surprised? I’m sure your partner retention rate is also exceeding tracking

Jayadev Ambat– that, like, from very soon.

Ritu Soni Srivastava– No. But I think it’s brilliant. I think some of the things that you all touched upon, are so fundamental to the insights business, to leaders, to team members, to people wanting to build a career, to people already in the space and looking to grow and transform. This has been a lovely fun conversation. Thank you so much for taking time out, and we hope to have you back again soon for another round.

Ritu Soni Srivastava– But till then, this is Hureka, the Insights podcast signing off with the founding and leadership team of the Third Eye. Truly, insights organization that you must check out.

Gitanjali Ghate– Thank you, Ritu. Thank you, Ritu. Thank you. Bye.

Ritu Soni Srivastava– Hureka by Thelightbulb.ai, the Insights podcast.