Ep #11 – Rajeev Aggarwal on Driving Growth Through Consumer Insights and AI Innovation

Welcome to the 11th episode of ‘Heureka – The Insights Podcast’ by thelightbulb.ai.

In this episode, we are hosting Rajeev Aggarwal, Partner and Chief Growth Officer at That Fig Tree.

Tune in as he dives into the future of market research and consumer insights, sharing his journey in driving growth, fostering innovation, and shaping strategies in this rapidly evolving industry!

Guest: Rajeev Aggarwal

Rajeev Aagrwal is a seasoned professional with over 20 years of experience in the marketing and insights industry. He is currently a Partner and Chief Growth Officer at That Fig Tree, a consumer insights company dedicated to helping clients better understand consumers to drive business growth. Rajeev is also the Co-founder of PercepTech AI, an innovative artificial intelligence-driven marketing insights and analytics company focused on scaling businesses globally.

Host: Ritu Soni Srivastava

Heureka – The Insights Podcast is a series of podcast episodes hosted by Ritu Soni Srivastava, who is a seasoned entrepreneur, focused on her current startup thelightbulb.ai, a full-stack emotion ai platform for digital interactions that has scanned more than 8 million faces for emotion analysis. She has held pivotal profiles across deep-tech, health-tech, telecom and media companies over the last 20 years. Her cross-industries experience gives her a unique edge in understanding consumer trends and insights across verticals.

In the podcast, Shibarjun shares some interesting experiences, challenges and solutions of working from agency as well as brand side.

Engagement and Sentiment Analysis of Podcast

Note: Engagement and sentiment analysis are generated using thelightbulb.ai’s  Insights Pro

Voice Transcripts of Podcast

Note: Transcription of the podcast is generated using thelightbulb.ai’s Insights Pro

Heureka by thelightbulb.ai, The Insights podcast.

Ritu Soni Srivastava– Hello, everybody, and welcome to another edition of Hureka, the Insights podcast. We have someone very cool with us today. I met him almost, about 6 to 9 months ago, and I was immediately impressed by his intuitive grasp of the entire business model and the way that the research industry is changing across different geographies. Please welcome , partner and chief growth officer of That Fig Tree based out of Singapore.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – Also, the cofounding part of the cofounding team at Perceptech AI, that is building huge AI businesses that encompass technology in market research in one fascinatingly combination mix, and that’s what he’s here to talk about today. I think what all I would also love to bring up is unlike a lot of people who, you know, come to us and, converse with us on Hureka, we have someone who’s a teacher at heart. So, Rajiv, you are also a faculty at the NUS Business School.

Rajeev Aggarwal – And of course, in

Ritu Soni Srivastava – the past, you’ve been with Kantar, Nielsen, and you’ve done a lot of work in market research, but it’s very rare to find a practitioner who’s also a teacher. How did that come about?

Rajeev Aggarwal – I think it just, you know, it is about sharing the knowledge. I just wanted to share the knowledge, and I think this is a little slightly, because, you know, frankly, I was not a very good student when I was a student, in a conventional sense. Like, I was I didn’t get top grades or, you know, I did not really study very hard and but, it’s a but when I started working, I enjoyed working more than I enjoyed, studying. I mean, I’ll be honest with you here. And the reason I liked about working was, hands on experience and learning from the real situations and managing and dealing the real situations.

Rajeev Aggarwal – So I thought that I wanna take that to the classroom. And, then that’s where I structured a course around that, my real, experience and and try to do that. So the the I try to do a course in a way that where, you know, I would I would learn it. I would want to learn it myself. I if I take the clock 20 years to 25 years backwards, that’s how I would want to learn where, you know, there are some practical experiences.

Rajeev Aggarwal – There are some industry people coming. Imagine, I think, in, and then I’m older to you, Ritu. I mean, like, example, I did my graduation in I 394, then I did my post grad in 2,000. I studied economics, and I haven’t had any, exposure.

Rajeev Aggarwal – I haven’t had anybody coming from industry. A chief economist with the Deutsche Bank or chief economist with the Bank or SBI coming and talking about economics, how that person is using economics. Imagine the difference would that make to me that type, you know, in terms of my love for the, discipline, in terms of, you know, and that never happened. And, you know, those were the times, different times also. And these days, again, it’s happening quite a lot, but I think, that was my thing, you know, talk about myself, get people in, and, teaching is, different professional together.

Rajeev Aggarwal – You know? So, I have a lot of learning. I’m a beginner there. Although in market research profession, I’m quite a bit been doing quite a bit, but in terms of teaching, I’m new. And I think it has its own low learning curve.

Rajeev Aggarwal – It’s not that, know, you start and you become fantastic at it. I think there’s a learning curve there. Yeah.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – You’re absolutely right in terms of us becoming learners all over again. It’s very ironic. Yeah. You have learners on that side, and you’re a learner yourself. But

Rajeev Aggarwal – Yeah.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – Before we go there, tell me about your progression. How did you start? How did you get into market research? Did you always want to be in research? What led to it?

Ritu Soni Srivastava– So, you know,

Rajeev Aggarwal – I think look. I like to keep things honest. And, and that’s the reason I moved to a start-up where I can be more honest, with friends. And I never ever wanted to become a researcher. I never dreamed of it.

Rajeev Aggarwal – I never dreamed of it. So my first job was a journalist. I was a CNBC reporter in India, and, I was covering stock markets and, you know, I was in Mumbai. I’m based in Mumbai, then I was in Delhi covering finance ministry. I, like, interviewed a lot of these people like Raul Bajaj were alive that time.

Rajeev Aggarwal – Bajaj Motors had. Right? I had a lot of I have long interviews with him. I had long chats with, even, Kumar take over. It is, house.

Rajeev Aggarwal – So that was my job, but then I got very disappointed with lot of things in India, and I want to leave the country. And that’s where I came to NUS, National University of Singapore to do my masters, and I did economics. And after that, when I was looking for the job, you know, journalism was not an option. Singapore is not a very typical journalist place. You know, it’s not it’s not like, India or US where, there’s a freedom and, and too much freedom sometimes.

Rajeev Aggarwal – You know? Like, how the media’s, people end up becoming devils, especially in India, you know, by spreading all kind of lies. So, yeah, in a way, they have too much power. So what the Singapore was didn’t feel like a fascinating place for me to journalism, and then that’s where I got into market research. And I started, working on it.

Rajeev Aggarwal– It happened by chance, but I kind of, I started liking like, any job, you know, you don’t like 100% ever. I mean, at least I didn’t like 100%. Some parts of I like more than others. I like the client’s part a lot more where I was exposed to clients, where I was trying to see how the client business is working from agency side. That kind of, was very enriching experience for me because I could see a HSBC or a Unilever of the how they’re thinking, and I could see that how what I’m doing is making some difference to them.

Rajeev Aggarwal – And so that kept me going. And then I think it’s a usual thing. Yeah. So, it just became and then, yeah, the job gave a kind of a thing of a intellectual stimulation in the form of research. It gives some entrepreneurship stimulation in the form of clients or sales, You know?

Rajeev Aggarwal – And then you end up developing friends, you know, at a place and you like going to office. So it just kept working on, and then it offered some challenges here and there. Yeah.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – Absolutely. Interesting. What led from all of this to your joining? Because you had a very celebrated career. You were with Kantar.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – You were heading the business. And what suddenly led you to break away and join the Fig Tree and launch Perceptic? I mean, what I in Iraq.

Rajeev Aggarwal – Yeah. Look. I think the thing was there was a lot of restructuring happening in the company also. And, so the stability was less, and, you know, I was always looking for, some of this just I had in me that I wanna build something. And some somewhere where I have a say and somewhere, you know, I feel independent.

Rajeev Aggarwal  – And, like, at the companies when they are driven with the with the objective, with the keeping clients in their mind, they’re, they’re very, they’re very appealing to me. But when they just become hardcore place of, you know, numbers, and, you know, the fund goes away. And I’m not saying that’s very wrong or anything, and that’s how a lot of the private equity companies are coming and acquiring the companies. There’s difference between venture capitalist and private equity. Right?

Rajeev Aggarwal – I’m assuming. And, you know but the way they’re coming, they kind of are taking a donkey and trying to keep it make it a horse and sell it sell it. You know? And in that process, it’s a very, painful process. So I think the there were so many other circumstances which fall in place and, you know, where the entrepreneurship’s kind of our root was opened.

Rajeev Aggarwal – So when I joined that fig tree, I joined with friends who I trust, who people have with very good, you know, value system and, highly capable, research heads. And then, I could kind of thought that I could contribute with them. I think there was kind of a synergy. They loved research, the craft of it. And I did not love the craft as much as they did.

Rajeev Aggarwal – I liked it. I loved client, and sales more than them. They liked it, but they didn’t love it, but I loved it. So, you know, there are few things they like, but I love there few things I like and what they love. So I thought there is a and the value system I found is common.

Rajeev Aggarwal – We probably can work because it’s gonna be tough. Right? Sometimes, you know, the cash flow situation, sometimes revenue situation, sometimes they so if you’re far apart in your valley system, it may not work. And, you know, so people who can think about you even the times are tough. I think that was my criteria, and so I started working with them.

Rajeev Aggarwal – And, I had absolutely no clue that we’ll end up founding another company. But over a period of time, I kind of, developing this hypothesis of thinking in my head that people are more important than anything else. And if you are with the right people, right things will happen. And if you’re with the wrong people, then wrong things will happen. You may wanna make things right, but, you know, eventually, wrong things will happen because, there’s inbuilt, mechanism within people.

Rajeev Aggarwal – Right? And so when I thought I’d joining the right people, I’ve thought that something right will happen. And then suddenly, one day, they said that they have this idea. And rather than, you know, commission or salary or whatever, why don’t you become a partner? And, and I think it was good.

Rajeev Aggarwal – And so it was all, like, a bunch of coincidences, but the faith was that, you know, you’re working with people who kind of believe in what they’re doing. They’re nice and, you know, and they’re giving. So that’s how it started.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – Very nice. And how is the reception now for technology in the market research market? This kind of, I’m jumping the gun a little bit. But how are you seeing the reception for technology led initiatives in a very traditional world of market research?

Rajeev Aggarwal – So you see the thing you know, there are a lot of factors at play, Ritu, and you are an entrepreneur yourself. Right? And you’re selling things, and I’m trying to sell things, and we all want more business. But the there’s a adoption curve. There’s adoption curve.

Rajeev Aggarwal – And there is a say do gap. You know? It’s like it’s like, you know, you asking me, Rajeev, are you do you, you know, is climate important to you? And I’ll say, absolutely, climate is important. Whereas, you ask me, what do you do for climate, Rajeev?

Rajeev Aggarwal – I said, I don’t So I think that the same problem is everywhere, even the research world, and I’m upfront about it. I mean, you go to the clients and you ask them what’s your number one thing. Oh, we wanna be the technology leader. But saying is not enough. You know?

Rajeev Aggarwal – The doing part is the most important part because say to do it where you wanna switch. You know, everybody wants change to happen just like this. You know, but it doesn’t happen like that. You know, somebody has to suffer and you take that pain for the change to happen. You know?

Rajeev Aggarwal – So I think the and, you know, like, for funding for perceptive dot ai, we’ve been talking to so many VCs, and you’re more experienced, with doing that, more successful in case of gaining funds for your start up. But many of the VCs are telling us that they are looking at this industry, but it’s a very sleepy industry, market research industry. And this thing that this industry has been somehow very, it’s been a bit averse to the to the fast changes. You know, the trackers which were, which or Nielsen was doing years ago, and they’re doing with the same clients now. And it’s a repeatable business for them, and you go to clients, they will complain.

Rajeev Aggarwal – Oh, we are not happy with this. Things are not changing, but they’ll still keep going, working with them. So it’s a bit like, you know, the daughter marriage, and you wanna keep going. You don’t wanna change because, you know, you’re afraid of change. So, so to cut it shortly, the things are getting better.

Rajeev Aggarwal – Clients are there are some clients who are really on technology front. You’re very active. They wanna get the technology in their business very fast. But there are some who say we don’t do. So, and at the same time, I would say supply side also, which, you know, which kind of, pertains to you or me.

Rajeev Aggarwal – I mean, are we bringing the right product? Are we bringing the cutting-edge product? But at the same time, you know, the product how much investment is going on? That that depends. Like, for example, if you look at OpenAI.

Rajeev Aggarwal – Right? And if you look at OpenAI balance sheet, they’re they’re kind of a few $1,000,000,000 companies, but they are still a few $1,000,000,000 losses. So the amount of funds they are sitting in. Now, whether the market research companies will get that kind of funds, you know, to try and that is the so I think it’s a both demand and supply situation, and there’s no easy answer to it. But I think the but then it all goes back to the mindset, which people in this industry have.

Rajeev Aggarwal – I think this industry probably attracts people who are a little bit more safe and, you know, who kind of a who are a bit risk averse. I think it’s a bit sweeping statement, and a lot of people may not like it. But, you know, you know, imagine in a sick you go to any market research office, you’ll find how many people have sales there. You can count. 1, 2.

Rajeev Aggarwal – Okay. I don’t I’m happy sitting here. Give me that report. I’ll do the report. Now so I think the type of industry is also like that.

Rajeev Aggarwal – So it’s a industry which has been disrupted, but the place of the pace of disruption has been exceedingly slow, I would say, or extraordinary slow. I mean, you look at a, I mean, we haven’t seen a unit somebody becoming unicorn, like, as a as a crowd Strike, the cybersecurity firm has become or as a z scaler, which has become we haven’t seen a unicorn emerging like that. So yeah. So as I said, adoption is still an issue. It’s slow.

Rajeev Aggarwal – People are, they’d say that they wanna be less purist, but making the shift from purist to less purist is not that easy. So all those factors I face a lot of those things, and I’m not I’m not surprised about it. I I’ve, you know, I just wanna see that how can we do to bridge that gap and, you know, somebody has to take that, that step ahead to make things happen. That’s how I look at it. But, yeah, sometimes, you know, you feel that what the hell.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – No. I feel you, and I think you have a very interesting point that the nature of the industry is very non sales y and very non it’s gonna sound rude, but non non efficiency oriented. Because if you look at most Yeah.

Rajeev Aggarwal – Folks Yeah.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – They see themselves as being the counterpoint to business, and I think you’ve used a beautiful word of a purist. They see themselves as disconnected from business motives while assisting the business process. So they see themselves as driven by an insight or a human truth or and wanting to discover human behavior and not being driven by revenue or numbers, which is what they are ultimately trying to impact. So it’s a bit of a dichotomy in my mind. Yeah.

Rajeev Aggarwal – Yeah. I think it’s a it’s about a balance, Ritu. And, you know, I haven’t been able to find that balance myself. Why do I blame them? Because I’m more on client sales, and I wanna get things fast.

Rajeev Aggarwal – I wanna move fast, do this move. Thanks. But there are people who wanna kinda perfect their craft. They love it, and, you know, they it’s like a trophy. They wanna, you know, build some things with their because I think it’s a inner satisfaction they get.

Rajeev Aggarwal – That’s how that’s why they got into this business.

Rajeev Aggarwal – You know, because they love doing that. Yes. And, if you see 10, 15, 20 years ago, there was no need to sell. The businesses came in, and there was no disruption. There is survey businesses that everybody has to do, and you have a seat on table. You just go and do.

Rajeev Aggarwal – And people loved, working overnight, late night. They thought this way of researchers and you know what? I always think I always believed that, you know, it’s a means to an end. And, you can love it or you can hate it, but if you’re not able to make a difference to the business or add, something to the bottom line or move a needle, then I think, you’re not you’re not doing a Nobel job or you’re not taking things forward. So I think that that’s my view and but I think people there are people who are hugely successful, but they think differently.

Rajeev Aggarwal – So it doesn’t matter.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – I think it’s you’re right. It’s a view, and, we can debate it on ad nauseam. But tell me a little bit more about now you’ve been an active client facing, resource. Now you’re a partner at the Fig Tree. You’re running a technology startup.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – What does a typical day look like for you? Is it frantic? Is it calm, measured? Do you actually have you found that famed work life balance?

Rajeev Aggarwal – So I don’t believe in balance, Ritu. I I never believed in it. I mean, look. I mean, even when I was a, new research executive or anything, I did never believed in the balance of know, there were people who will come who will go to office at 9, finish at 6. Then at 6, something else will start.

Rajeev Aggarwal – Then 8, 8 something else will start, and 10 sleep will start. Now I understand about the sleep because it’s the most important part. Some some at at the end of the day, you have to call it a day. Right? Now everything’s gone.

Rajeev Aggarwal  – The concept which I kind of believe and which has appealed to me always in work life integration rather than work life balance. Because, and it’s more so as when you are entrepreneur or, you know, kind of jealousy. There’s no there’s no balance. I mean, I I can’t say no to things when they’re needed to be done. When they’re needed to be done, they need it to be done.

Rajeev Aggarwal – You know? And, and that’s my nature also. I mean, I I kind of, so the work life balance is is what I don’t believe in. I I or may maybe people think of it differently, but I don’t I don’t see a point where you work from 9 to 6, and from 6, you don’t work. I I don’t I don’t think like that.

Rajeev Aggarwal – I mean, at times, I’m working on weekends also, and I work 3 hours on a weekend. But there are days on a day, I’ll work only 5 hours. You know? I’ll just chill out rest of the time and you know? But I’ll kinda so over a period, I’ll make sure I’m doing my things, trying to exceed expectations, trying to do good for business over a period of time, but it doesn’t have to be, you know, given amount of time.

Rajeev Aggarwal – Now that’s my way of working.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – And compartmentalize.

Rajeev Aggarwal – Yeah. Is I that that’s not my life. That’s not my nature. And a lot of people have that nature where they keep things compartmentalized, and they can do that. It’s so at the end of the day, it’s not work life balance or work life work life integration.

Rajeev Aggarwal – It’s what you want, how you want to deal with it, what makes you at peace. For me, work life balance doesn’t work the way it’s defined. Now, whether the day is difficult or days, busy, or I’m basically not a very calm person by nature.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – So Look very calm, you know, which is very dichotomous. You have such a calm, sane, demeanor. You’re not calm?

Rajeev Aggarwal – No? No. No. No. I mean, I’m calm in the sense that, I mean, I I’m impatient.

Rajeev Aggarwal – I’m very impatient. Yeah. If you ask my business partners, they’re they don’t like me. They say that, Rajeev, you really need to cool down. You need to develop some faith.

Rajeev Aggarwal – You know? Things will happen. They will happen. You don’t have to do them all the time. They will happen.

Rajeev Aggarwal – They will happen by their own universe as a way of doing it. You know what? By nature, I’m very impatient, and I wanna get over things, do things fast. And, so for me, there’s I won’t say it’s busy or it’s, it is what it is. You know?

Rajeev Aggarwal – Some days there are more meetings. Some days there are less meetings. And, but what I wake up with the idea of, you know, meeting new people, you know, developing partnerships, exploring possibilities, creating possibilities, thinking about possibilities. I think that is, thinking about dealing with that unknown. It’s, it’s very stressful also sometimes, but I think that keeps you going also because there is no end to it.

Rajeev Aggarwal – Right? It’s a infinite game. So, you know, their concept of finite game and infinite game. Finite game is that you finish it and, you know, it’s done, tested. But infinite game is that it never gets over.

Rajeev Aggarwal – You are a player in the game, and then you pass on the ball and somebody else becomes a player. So my thinking is a lot on that is an infinite game we are playing, so just keep playing. And, it’s just that the game is divided in today’s hours and life. You know? But, you know, if you believe in the ancient philosophy, it’s eternal.

Rajeev Aggarwal – Right? It keeps going on. You’re there. You’re not there. You’re alive.

Rajeev Aggarwal – You’re taking it. So I think for me, it’s like that, but I I wake up with ideas of not a part what idea of doing great research? I don’t I I wake up with the idea of possibilities about exploring options, leaving some probabilities. You know? Those are the things.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – Nice. Nice. And now that you’ve spent up over a couple of decades in this industry and you’ve seen it grow through us, you’ve seen it across markets, Do you feel that there is a shift in the way that the industry itself is behaving? It could be technology. It could be AI.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – It could be just newer ways of thinking. It could be the mix or the focus of business on, you know, research. What are some of the most interesting trends that you’re seeing the market the world of market research undergoing right now? Things that have caught your eye. So I think the if you ask me,

Rajeev Aggarwal – there is certain happiness in me about the industry or certain excitement. But at the same time, there is certain unhappiness or sadness also about the way things are happening. For example, I’m quite, happy about the fact that, you know, we’ve moved towards, more than modern methodology. You know, we look at towards the AI, kind of a thing. You know?

Rajeev Aggarwal – Artificial intelligence and how do we embed this in the system and all that stuff. So I think that is a good thing. One big bigger thing which I’m, even more pleased about and which is not happening very actively is about emotions. So, so lot of surveys, lot of things, and I grew up on them based on the, you know, lack of emotions, rational responses, you know, thinking of human being a a rational decision maker while they are not. Right?

Rajeev Aggarwal – And after the Neil Kahneman won the Nobel Prize and lot of focus is coming on behavioral science and lot of focus is coming on emotions, but it’s not there yet at all. It’s not there yet at all. The decision making is still not, you know, the consumer research is not doesn’t really cater to that at a scale. You know? Like, all the tracking work we do, that’s the most scalable work.

Rajeev Aggarwal – Right? Brand tracking. No. It’s very kind of a claimed responses. Right?

Rajeev Aggarwal – So the emotional work or the newer work or, you know, which can be real driver of decision making is not gone scalable yet. And nobody has done it. Some people have tried to do it, but it’s very expensive and all that. So I think the idea, the thinking of that happening is kind of fascinates me. But how will that happen is also a big question because, you see, if you look back 10 years ago or 15 years ago, we had 3 companies which were leading the pack.

Rajeev Aggarwal – Right? Nielsen, Kantar, Ipsos, and it’s still same. If you go 3 decades, Kantar in some other form, DNS, Mel Brown, these are the companies. It’s the same institution, same species. You know what I would say was there.

Rajeev Aggarwal – So in 3 decades, we have this. Now if you go back and look at the technology world, Google has come in in last 25 years. There was no Google, but nothing has come in our world. Right? So, so I think it’s maybe it’s not that high stake a game or whatever sometimes I think.

Rajeev Aggarwal – But what saddens me is that things are not changing at pace enough, you know, that they should they should change. There is no incumbent. There is no challenger who is coming, including me or including us, who has come and given a open challenge and kind of toppled the leadership of the existing, players, legacy players who are not innovating but renovating. You know? Nothing has happened, and I think clients are also not open to it somehow.

Rajeev Aggarwal – You know, it’s as I said, it’s always demand and supply issue. So I do not know what’s the what’s the way forward to it. But as I said that the development and AI space is pretty exciting. We are also doing it, and, you know, it makes things easy. It makes things faster.

Rajeev Aggarwal – It makes things better. But at the same time, are we doing things right is also very important where I think about the emotional decision making, the role of emotions. Is it being coming to the central of the decision making, and are we developing enough tool accordingly, or we are we having enough thinking around that? And at the same time, what I’m seeing is the industry has stopped growing. You know, if you look at the growth rate of, Nielsen or Kantar or even traditional boutique companies, it’s kind of a it’s not that high as it used to be 10 years.

Rajeev Aggarwal – It you know, the kind of living is becoming difficult for the industry. The bonuses, pay packages, all that is becoming difficult also. So at one side, we have this industry’s growth rate, going down. On the second side, we need to do something right. We need to reinvent the industry both by the concept and by the technology.

Rajeev Aggarwal – And then we are facing in a declining environment. The business environment, the money is possibly moving somewhere else, maybe to the analytic space or to some other space. I don’t know. I don’t have a lot of visibility on that. So I think there are it’s a bit of a chess game.

Rajeev Aggarwal – You know? There are a few things here and there. We got to think. We got to think. Nobody has, the future or crystal ball, but, you know, I think all we can do is what we think is right, right for the environment, right for the business, right for us.

Rajeev Aggarwal – We do that and see what happens.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – But I think you have a very, very interesting point, which is the decline of insights and the rise of analytics. They’re juxtaposed primarily because if you look at where the money in the market is going, it’s moving to methods or channels that are measurable. Right? A decade ago, the percentage of spends on digital ad spends in a in a company’s media budget were 2 to 5%. You know?

Ritu Soni Srivastava – When I used to be in Airtel, which was almost a decade ago, actually, almost 15 years ago, our and we used to have a 900 crore media budget. Our digital spends were 2% of that budget. And the remaining 98% were channels of advertising and marketing that were not easily measurable, that did not have metrics of delivery around them. Today, that proportion and I was just speaking to somebody from Unilever last week, and they were saying increasingly we’re at about 40% of our spends is on digital metrics or digital platforms because the buying behavior of the consumer has shifted. But these platforms come with inbuilt analytics and metrics, which means I don’t need to spend on insights.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – I know exactly what the customer is doing there. So if our industry market research is going to depend on the insights aspect for non measurable channels. That pie is rapidly shrinking.

Rajeev Aggarwal – Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – Unless we use technology to tie together the behaviors that customers are showing on ecommerce sites and digital channels, This is just going to shrink away to absolutely nothing. And I don’t That’s happening.

Rajeev Aggarwal – And that is that is why, you know, that we’ve started with Percepta also as a business commercial angle to this also. But, you know, these are disturbing trends also sometimes. Now I do not know whether that’s how the world is changing. Because I went to, you know, an event, a regional economic conference, and I met one very senior marketing directors who kind of were taking a break. And she was saying that her job was becoming very boring because all she was doing is signing on, you know, the campaigns that this campaign, that campaign, and there are so many campaigns happening.

Rajeev Aggarwal – So the and she says that she really misses those days of big ideas, you know, when she will sit with her ad and she will think of an idea that, you know, which is gonna be the idea, one idea, which will change and what we’ll do. And now it is, undue, focus on performance marketing, which you’re talking about. And that performance marketing, performance marketing will, you know, will end up going to, performance marketing is now again, you know, is what we’re talking about, Ritu. So I think the good old marketing where we talked about, ads, where we talked about big ideas, campaign ideas, and, you know, even for my teaching, I was looking for some really recent experiences, and I’m hard to find. You know?

Rajeev Aggarwal – I was still talking about a dove and a Coca Cola, all these iconic brands, and so I don’t know. There is there is change. I no. I sometimes, whether it’s we who are having difficult, whether we are children will have difficulty accepting it. I don’t see them having any difficulty accepting it because they’re born in it.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – Right.

Rajeev Aggarwal – But I don’t know what’s gonna happen. Seriously, I don’t know. And it’s just subbing. It’s sometimes it’s exciting, but it’s just subbing also.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – No. I agree with you. I think the world order is changing. I think we’ve seen more change in the last 20 years than I think the last 50 years before us saw. But, again, that’s ust a perception thing.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – I’m sure every generation complains about that. Awesome. So, we’ve had an awesome conversation. And since we have very little time left, I would love to perhaps dwell on a few of the distillations from, you know, your long career in market research and talk to 2 specific groups of people who might be watching this or listening into this podcast.

Rajeev Aggarwal – Sure.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – One is for people who have just entered the market research domain and are looking to build a career in insights. What is something that you would like to share with them that might help them make the most of their experience? Tips, hacks, things you wish somebody had told you when you were starting out about market research.

Rajeev Aggarwal – I think it’s, look. At the end of the day, they have to realize one thing or everybody has to realize. And, you know, it would applies to us at each stage of our life that everybody has its own journey. So I think the focus they have to do is running their own race, their own journey, and ask a lot of questions to themselves about, you know, what they want to do, why they want to do, and, you know, these are general bigger topics which should govern, part of the career, and it’s not an ad. In terms of specifically market research, I think now I can say the curiosity is the most important thing I’ve seen.

Rajeev Aggarwal – You know, if you’re curious, then you will do well. You know? That’s it. That’s there is no because, you know, you need something in their hunger. Right?

Rajeev Aggarwal – Now inner hunger, as I said, that you can divide for sales, you know, go to have inner hunger to win. You know? If a salesperson doesn’t like the sound of the money, you know, it’s  difficult to succeed as a salesperson. Now you probably could, you know, but you’re not. You’re Gandhi or Mandela.

Rajeev Aggarwal – You’re not. Right? And in terms of research, if you really wanna be in research, well, you gotta write the curiosity. You gotta be curious. You gotta be really curious.

Rajeev Aggarwal – And, if you have a lot of questions. So, the only thing 1 or 2 advice which I wanna leave 2 advice which I wanna leave, and this applies whether you’re selling or whether you are doing or whether you’re doing both, is to try to do all of a multidisciplinary thinking. That is, you know, you think from a, for on a problem, 1st from beginner’s mind, that is that is, from a fresh perspective, from a fresh things. Don’t try to kind of, take one solution and put it, dump it over. You know?

Rajeev Aggarwal – Problem each problem is unique. So think of it from beginner’s mind. And think wide. Not just one discipline or two discipline. I mean, I’m not a personally, I think that, you know, if if you read history, if you read philosophy, if you read, psychology, if you read physics, if you read maths, you will think about a problem in a far more holistic manner than you will think about just one possible angle.

Rajeev Aggarwal – So multidisciplinary thinking is very important where you bring a fuse several multi several disciplines and bring thinking together. If you can’t do that and nobody can do that perfectly, then, build a team, which is multidisciplinary. Right? And, you know, because, get a physics person in your team or get a social science person in your team, and then, like, bring a what do you call you know, it’s like a maestro. Right?

Rajeev Aggarwal – Become a maestro. Manage everything. Create an orchestra. So so that is, I think, if you can’t do it, then get it, you know, get in the situation where you do. And second thing which I which I find is objectivity and courage.

Rajeev Aggarwal – So, it’s not a it’s a rare thing. Right? And, you know, the numbers you know, if I give you a glass, which is half glass full and a half glass empty, you can spin it anyway. You can say it’s half glass full and you can say half glass empty, and nobody can do anything because both are true. Right?

Rajeev Aggarwal – But then that’s where the courage comes to see half glass full and a half glass empty and relating it to a particular situation you are in or a business problem you’re solving. So I think that courage, to speak your mind while remaining objective and while thinking about the business objectives and not, getting yourself burdened by the expectations or, willingness to make somebody happy and appease somebody. I think those are couple of important things, in my view, which people should look out for.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – Awesome. Now that’s for people who are still relatively young, or would you say the same principles apply to anyone at any stage?

Rajeev Aggarwal – See, I think, I believe it’s any stage because, multidisciplinary thinking is evolving. Right? For example, there was no there was there was always laws of physics were there. Right? But there was no, chat GPD earlier.

Rajeev Aggarwal – Right? So you go to learn chat GPD, and then chat GPD comes plot. And then with plot comes Grog 2, which is Elon Musk’s things. And then come other, then comes so I think if you have the learner mindset, you will keep exploring these things and you end up becoming so multidisciplinary is, like, is a process. You know?

Rajeev Aggarwal – It can’t stop because disciplines are changing or disciplines are evolving. Right? And the objectivity is the second thing is objectivity is rare in the sense that, that, you know, as you grow up, your the stress pressure you face is different. Right? When you’re a child, there is no pressure, so you laugh.

Rajeev Aggarwal – Right? Your objective without problems. And but when you when you grow up, you know, you your objective can become a slave to, bosses keeping happy or clients keeping happy. More you become that, more you get into that. So it’s a constant muscle building, mental muscle building, which you need to do and where you have to kind of reflect yourself and say that, no.

Rajeev Aggarwal – This is important. This is who I am. This is how I wanna live my life. And if there is a cost with it, I will give that cost. The problem is that we want to do something, but we wanna don’t wanna give the cost.

Rajeev Aggarwal – The cost could be a promotion. Cost could be not getting the salary hike. Cost could be, offending a big client. I think just go and do it. That is I mean, I do a lot more than people should do, But, you know, and I have never cared about career in my life.

Rajeev Aggarwal – I can tell you that. I’ve never ever cared about career in my life. I wanted to get promoted. I want to get more money, but I it never came to mind that this is important for my career. This is important for this.

Rajeev Aggarwal – I just did what was right. I tried to do.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – And I think that’s all any of us can do. We can try to do what we feel is right in a given circumstance.

Rajeev Aggarwal – Even A lot of people have this laundry list of this is good for career. Like, you have to smile at this point. You have to wear this shirt. I had a line manager who told me you should wear good clothes. You should come across well.

Rajeev Aggarwal – You know, you should look more polished than you are and, you know, and then I said that this is the time to leave this company.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – When I’m getting wardrobe advice, this is the time to leave.

Rajeev Aggarwal – Not out there to get this. So yeah. I think look. As I said, at the end of the day, you can hear me or everybody is there everybody has to decide for themselves and have their own journey.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – No. I think that’s I think that’s just the right note, to leave at this point because I think, Rajeev, the one thing that we see as we are growing older is the people who truly are successful, not by metrics of wealth and not by metrics of advancement, but people who’ve genuinely made a difference to the people around them in their careers and their organizations are people who are authentic, who are true to what they believe. Right? And that’s at the heart of what you’re saying is exactly that. Be objective.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – Be courageous. Be you. Do what feels right. That frame of reference may change at various points in your life. But being authentic and being courageous, I think, is

Rajeev Aggarwal – everybody’s very important.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – It’s very, very hard to do. And as, you know, as a fellow salesperson, I feel the struggle because you’re under pressure to bring in revenue, and you and your views will impact that revenue. So sometimes these can be tricky conversations, and perception building can be very hard. But I think these are, like you said, these are the basics that, if we can I

Rajeev Aggarwal – I think one thing, I think, Ritu, one thing which I have seen is that the existing norms are, you know, are not always to be followed because existing norms are, you know, it’s  everybody kind of evolves and, you know, you got a question? You got a question. That’s where I think curiosity will help you questioning that because some of them are, like, 9 90% of them, they just they I hope they won’t talk to me earlier because they don’t mean anything. They don’t mean anything. You know?

Rajeev Aggarwal – They aren’t true. They aren’t true. You know? So yeah.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – Awesome. Thank you so much, Rajeev. As always, it was an absolute pleasure to connect with you. I’m sure Thanks. Who watches this podcast episode or even listens in will really appreciate some of the points you’ve made.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – And can you just quickly tell the people where they can find you, connect with you if they’re looking for you?

Rajeev Aggarwal – So I think, LinkedIn is a good place. I’m pretty active. And, the company’s website, that victory for. We have a YouTube channel as well at that victory. Beginners mind at that victory.

Rajeev Aggarwal – You can find me. I have my personal YouTube channel, which has been dormant for some time, all building wealth with Rajeev. They can find me there. So, yeah, I’m I’m a social media junkie, so it’s not hard to find me.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – And he’s very responsive on all channels and on WhatsApp. So once you connect with him, I can promise you that he will always be there to help and guide you, even if there are no business objectives involved. And I am a personal, witness to that, and I have to thank you, Rajiv. You have been so helpful at so many junctures with advice and guidance. And I would really encourage people who want to understand more about market research and understand the Southeast Asia market to reach out to Rajiv.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – There is no better guide.

Rajeev Aggarwal – Thank you so much. I am surprised you think so highly of me, but thank you.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – Oh, we only call coolest people on our show. Okay. Thank you, Rajiv. You have a great day. Bye.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – Take care. Bye. Cheers. Bye. Hureka by thelightbulb.ai, the Insights podcast.

They can find me there. So, yeah, I’m I’m a social media junkie, so it’s not hard to find me.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – And he’s very responsive on all channels and on WhatsApp. So once you connect with him, I can promise you that he will always be there to help and guide you, even if there are no business objectives involved. And I am a personal, witness to that, and I have to thank you, Rajiv. You have been so helpful at so many junctures with advice and guidance. And I would really encourage people who want to understand more about market research and understand the Southeast Asia market to reach out to Rajiv.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – There is no better guide.

Rajeev Agarwal – Thank you so much. I am surprised you think so highly of me, but thank you.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – Oh, we only call coolest people on our show. Okay. Thank you, Rajiv. You have a great day. Bye.

Ritu Soni Srivastava – Take care. Bye. Cheers. Bye. Hureka by thelightbulb.ai, the Insights podcast.